Hello friends! Yesterday, I posted an article I wrote previously on the reality of hell — why hell exists if God forgives.
In response, W.H. brought several challenges to the character and nature of God.
Here they are:
W.H. Wrote:
This is in no way the God as presented in either Testament, who generates arbitrary standards and rules and expects people to follow them. The God you speak of is not the God that is being discussed; you’re referring to a God that is actually loving. The God as presented in the Bible is a gaslighter - but, then again, I notice you see the sacrifice as Yeshuah as having been absolutely necessary, and don’t see it as the abject tragedy it truly is.
Question: Who set the stage so that the fall was guaranteed?
Hint: The serpent, Adam, and Eve were all players, not the stage manager.
If God loves us and doesn’t want us in the state we are in, then God should not have placed circumstances which would without question have guaranteed this inevitable fall. It is an outright contradiction for God to want the absolute best for us, yet to place us in a position where God knew without question we would be cast into suffering for no reason other than exercising the curiosity we were given by God. We were told one thing, but given no context as to why it was so, and expected to follow it intrinsically despite this total lack of context./ God, being infinite, could have made us understand, but instead chose to disallow that intrinsic understanding - meaning that Adam and Eve were UNEDUCATED, and thus had nothing but their curiosity to drive them to learn. Naturally, when given contradictory information, they tested it and found a degree of truth - God, rather than explaining in full the consequences of their actions, simply threw them out the exact same way he did Ha Satan (The Great Enemy) when it questioned him.
God is an objectively horrible father who blames and sacrifices his children to try and cover for his own mistakes. Yahweh is functionally the Canaanite God Molech.
My Response:
Hello W.H.,
Thanks for taking the time to write.
You said:
This is in no way the God as presented in either Testament, who generates arbitrary standards and rules and expects people to follow them.
My friend, God establishes rules based on who He is.
God commands us to love because He is love.
God commands us to care for each other because He cares for us.
God commands us esteem others above ourselves because He esteemed us above Himself when Jesus died in our place on the Cross.
You said:
The God you speak of is not the God that is being discussed; you’re referring to a God that is actually loving. The God as presented in the Bible is a gaslighter - but, then again, I notice you see the sacrifice as Yeshuah as having been absolutely necessary, and don’t see it as the abject tragedy it truly is.
It is absolutely a tragedy, but I suspect we think it’s a tragedy for different reasons.
I see it as a tragedy because it was necessary. We gave ourselves over to sin and rebellion so much that the only possible remedy was God Himself taking on flesh and dying for us, a perfectly innocent Jesus dying for sins He never committed.
It is a tragedy — the only truly good person dying for all who are evil.
Yet Jesus did it willingly. He knew why it had to happen.
And after He died, Jesus rose, conquering death and the grave forever.
Jesus won, my friend.
It’s a tragedy that He had to die.
But it’s a glorious victory that He won eternal life for us, the children He loves.
You said:
Question: Who set the stage so that the fall was guaranteed?
Hint: The serpent, Adam, and Eve were all players, not the stage manager.
If God loves us and doesn’t want us in the state we are in, then God should not have placed circumstances which would without question have guaranteed this inevitable fall.
My friend, God set them up to succeed.
In Genesis 1, God gave humanity authority to rule this earth:
“Then God said, ‘Let us make humanity in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion…” (Genesis 1:26)
God clarified that there were two types of dominion humanity would have to exercise: radah and kabash. God uses both of these words two verses later, in Genesis 1:28:
“Fill the earth and subdue (kabash) it, and have dominion (radah) over all…”
Radah refers to dominion over things that accept your stewardship, people and animals who obey your commands.
Kabash refers to dominion you have to enforce, such as a police officer dealing with criminals, or an army dealing with rebels.
God told Adam and Eve in Genesis 1 that they would encounter things they needed to kabash - to enforce their dominion over them.
The first was the serpent.
Why was the serpent in Eden?
To give Adam and Eve something to exercise kabash over, to learn how to use the dominion God had given to them.
You said:
It is an outright contradiction for God to want the absolute best for us, yet to place us in a position where God knew without question we would be cast into suffering for no reason other than exercising the curiosity we were given by God. We were told one thing, but given no context as to why it was so, and expected to follow it intrinsically despite this total lack of context./ God, being infinite, could have made us understand, but instead chose to disallow that intrinsic understanding - meaning that Adam and Eve were UNEDUCATED, and thus had nothing but their curiosity to drive them to learn.
God educated them perfectly for the challenge at hand:
God gave them everything good they enjoyed, proving that He wants good for them.
God fashioned a literal Paradise for them to live in, meeting every one of their needs and desires.
God told them exactly which tree to avoid eating, and what kind of penalty would result from eating from it.
God warned them that something would arise to challenge their dominion, and that they would need to kabash it.
God gave them every piece they needed to succeed.
You said:
Naturally, when given contradictory information, they tested it and found a degree of truth - God, rather than explaining in full the consequences of their actions, simply threw them out the exact same way he did Ha Satan (The Great Enemy) when it questioned him.
God didn’t throw them out.
God protected them.
They died immediately upon eating the fruit — died spiritually.
Physical death is far easier to fix in the Scripture that spiritual death. Jesus raises the dead constantly. Physical death is easy to fix.
But spiritual death required Jesus to go to the Cross to fix.
They died spiritually when they sinned, just as we all do.
But God protected them, even as they did.
He said:
Genesis 3:22–23
[22] Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” [23] therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. (ESV)
Do you catch that?
Adam and Eve filled their souls with evil as well as good. God took them out of Eden to prevent them from living forever with evil in their souls.
We call that hell.
Living forever with evil plaguing your existence is not a good thing. God saved them from that.
Then, God stayed with them.
As Adam and Eve lived and had children, God stayed right with them. He spoke to them, guided them, provided for them, and helped them. God didn’t abandon them or cast them away from Him.
You said:
God is an objectively horrible father who blames and sacrifices his children to try and cover for his own mistakes. Yahweh is functionally the Canaanite God Molech.
God took on flesh and died in His children’s place to save them from their own mistakes.
That’s the polar opposite of Molech.